[NewCandle] Energy Harvesting

Wed Oct 22 20:26:49 EDT 2008

Well alright then, I'm game for a little adhoc dev work.

Firstly, and I hate to say this, perhaps the piezo is not
the best way to go. Piezo's are really great for fidelity
as pickups, but the output impedance is very high, and
the efficiency of generators is claimed around 10% ( from this link )
http://www.piezo.com/tech3faq.html#app4
They mention better results with a resonant circuit,
which is what we're considering, but still 10% seems kind
of crappy. That's an excellent question to ask your
expert colleague, how efficient can these things be
at converting mechanical energy into electrical energy?

So what else can we use? Yea olde magnetic pickup. I'm imagining
something like a speaker cone arrangement. But better would
be a design based on sound powered headphones. See below link for
more information about this old and awesome tech.

http://www.crystalradio.net/soundpowered/

The design at the top of this page would be a good start,
with each harp wire replacing a diaphram.

http://www.crystalradio.net/soundpowered/introduction/index.shtml

one might even cannibalize an old "deck talker" for the
prototype, although any real system would need a larger
and more rugged unit.

But let's see what your friend sez about the piezos. I
think if they can be made efficient, they would be
better than any mechanical system both in terms of
cost and reliability. If they can't, we'll consider
the SP route in more detail. It's possible that less
sensitive but more efficient designs exist, the
SP thing is just off the top of my head.

K.

-----Original Message-----
From: newcandle-bounces at ipdiscover.com
[mailto:newcandle-bounces at ipdiscover.com]On Behalf Of John Steck
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 1:16 PM
To: New energy for the new world.
Subject: Re: [NewCandle] Energy Harvesting

Keith,
>From what I understand Ross got smart and got quiet around 1998.  He
started
a company, generated some patents, and is attempting to make resonance
driven fusion reactors: http://www.impulsedevices.com/about_team.html

Yes, urban environments would be ideal given the building amplification
effect on air movement.  Even slight breezes consolidate into usable air
flows.

I had the fortune to bump into an associate over lunch and I bounced this
Aeolian Generator (AG hereafter) idea off him.  He has his PhD in acoustics
and did some work with the military trying to develop boot heel piezo
devices to take advantage of the ~20 mi per day the typical foot solider
walks to trickle charge batteries.  It didn't sound like that project went
anywhere though (apart from several hundred miles on foot testing concepts
that is... ha ha).

This AG idea definitely caught his attention...  I told him I would pass
along the links to him to review.  I will let you know if he sees any red
flags.  I am pretty confident I can recruit him onto an ad hoc development
team.

-john

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Keith Nagel" <NewCandleAdmin at ipdiscover.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 2:11 PM
To: "New energy for the new world." <newcandle at ipdiscover.com>
Subject: Re: [NewCandle] Energy Harvesting

> Hey John,
>
> I'd put one on the waterfront dock at DUMBO, were I still
> in NYC. They'd love it. Here, I'm not so sure, but really
> any urban area would be great. Siting is important for
> these projects, and a noisy thing that sounds good has
> a lot of appeal to urban dwellers who are used to noisy
> things that sound ugly. Besides, if you did it right,
> the sound wouldn't be that loud. Without a resonator
> a vibrating string doesn't really tranfer a lot of power
> to the air. You can see in the harp pics how a large
> wooden resonator is used to amplify the sound.
>
> Jeeze, I remember Ross T. It's been awhile, huh? I wonder
> what happened to him?
>
> Here's a shoe power generator using fluidics rather than
> piezo power.
>
>
http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/20/ntts-energy-generating-shoes-spotted-with
> out-any-sign-of-stylis
>
> No, it's not a joke, but I do think it's hilarious.
>
> K.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: newcandle-bounces at ipdiscover.com
> [mailto:newcandle-bounces at ipdiscover.com]On Behalf Of John Steck
> Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 9:25 AM
> To: New energy for the new world.
> Subject: Re: [NewCandle] Energy Harvesting
>
>
> Reminds me of conversations with Ross Tessien (circa 1996) and his aether
> theory of matter being merely a resonant structure / standing wave of
> energy
> (gravity as an out of phase push from other cosmic resonant structures).
> That said, I would hate to destabilize the atomic structure of the wind
> farm
> location by accidently hitting a prime natural resonance chord.... 8^)  <-
> (for those dry humor impaired, the smiley means I am being facetious).
>
> I need to dig around and see how much this 'kit' is and how to get one.
> Thanks for the Wiki link (a site I love to hate).  An Aeolian harp rig
> that
> lights up an LED panel might be a nice proof-of-concept demo unit to use
> to
> stump for additional R&D funding to try and ramp it up into a usable wind
> generator.
>
> Seeing as I have neighbors that complain about very pleasant chord tuned
> wind chimes, I suspect a field of Aeolian harps will be faced with certain
> opposition if tried to be implemented anywhere within audible range of
> populated areas or on top of houses.  I don't know if shooting for
> above/below the audible range (for humans) could be practical frequencies
> to
> drive a piezo...
>
> -j
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Keith Nagel" <NewCandleAdmin at ipdiscover.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 12:47 PM
> To: "New energy for the new world." <newcandle at ipdiscover.com>
> Subject: Re: [NewCandle] Energy Harvesting
>
>> You know John, that's really not a bad idea at all...
>> The more I think about it, the more appealing it
>> becomes. When you posted the article it reminded
>> me of the typical acoustic guitar pickup, the modern
>> ones use a piezo crystal at the bridge and a
>> high z op-amp to drive the main amplifier. What
>> you are suggesting is to make an aoelian harp.
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeolian_harp
>>
>> The von karmen vortex street can be a powerful effect,
>> the takoma narrows bridge disaster is an example of
>> just how much energy can be generated in this fashion.
>>
>> As regards your concern about the hum, perhaps that
>> can be a plus and not a minus. I would design each
>> generator to have three strings, forming a major
>> seventh chord. The generators themselves would be
>> tuned to different root note, to give a pleasing
>> chord progression. The result would
>> be a constantly changing, beautiful soundscape.
>> People would probably pay to hear it.
>>
>> K.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: newcandle-bounces at ipdiscover.com
>> [mailto:newcandle-bounces at ipdiscover.com]On Behalf Of Nick Reiter
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 3:17 PM
>> To: New energy for the new world.
>> Subject: Re: [NewCandle] Energy Harvesting
>>
>>
>>
>>> >From a utility standpoint, it might be interesting
>>> to see how scalable the
>>> system is and whether a 'guitar string' wind
>>> generation system like this
>>> could realistically generate usable power.  Can you
>>> imagine the Tao hum a
>>> field of them would generate? You would never get
>>> past the NIMBY
>>
>> ***** Giant Guitar Strings... There will be rock...
>>
>> The Holy Grail 'neath ancient Roslin waits.
>> The blade and chalice guarding o'er Her gates.
>> Adorned in the masters' loving art, She lies;
>> She rests at last beneath the starry skies.
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
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