[NewCandle] Parasitic Cap Charging

Tue Oct 7 19:05:23 EDT 2008

Hey Ron,

Agreed on Linux. In fact, I'm wondering why you would even consider doing
this after the considerable trouble of setting up everything on windows
boxes. If you think the security will be better, it's not. Linux is
great for developers like yrs truely but it just sucks for people wanting
to just get something done. BTW, why even have the servers in house?
I run all my commercial stuff off of a hosting company, and they take
care of all the crap. I do have a local area network here with servers
and the like but that's purely for development work.

As far as replication of your work, I do actually have one of those
CSC type 104 protoboards. I appreciate the fact that at these frequencies,
I'd be needing to exactly replicate the components and positioning to
achieve the same circuit. I also understand your concerns about the SA;
what make and model do you use? I'm surprised you use voltage
probes of any kind with these circuits, given the loading problems
even active probes tend to be problematic. I like using CT-1 and CT-2
current probes, they have minimal loading and are good for AC circuits
up to very high frequencies. Frankly, were I to do these circuit myself
rather than replicate, I'd use my copper foil ground plane and tie
all the parts to that. Those protoboards will have all kinds of parasitics
due to the conductors under the plastic.

K.

-----Original Message-----
From: newcandle-bounces at ipdiscover.com
[mailto:newcandle-bounces at ipdiscover.com]On Behalf Of Dr Stiffler
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 9:08 AM
To: New energy for the new world.
Subject: Re: [NewCandle] Parasitic Cap Charging

*Everyone.

I'm here and working on getting the site back up and must admit I feel the
belief that Linux will every replace Windows is a delusional way of
thinking. I have one machine running but will never boot to the HD and the
other machine (web server) that feels it need to auto boot after every
prompt for the password. I will get it up and running....

Now for the comments of Mr. Winterflood about the 'creator' web site,
no-way!. Unless you have a SEC board or follow the desigh with the same
components that I spec for doing so on a proto-board, you may or may not
(luck) every get to a true SEC Exciter. It took many hours to design a
circuit board that would work properly (if properly tuned). For the
proto-boards the inner pad capacity and the power rail capacity as well as
the Al backing plate all affect the operation. It is without doubt possible
to do this, but if you do it from the junk box I can't help. The web site
mentioned and others as well as many posters on YouTube are using different
boards, different coils and different power supply methods, all of which are
not going to allow a replication. When power supplies are considered, low
pas filters are required. There is in a properly working Exciter, so much RF
within about 10M of the device that you can erase media and drive
instrumentation wild.

As for the 'hobbyists", 99.4% do not own a wideband scope, let alone a
spectrum analyzer. The ones that do have minimal equipment do not have the
100:1 probes and current probes needed to determine if their device is
working, even though they claim they are seeing things (they) can not
explain or understand.

No one should bother unless they have or have access to an SA. I tune the
exciter with an SA. When an exciter is properly tuned there is an envelope
around it of at least a meter radius from the device. This area often called
the bubble when modified will change the operation and bandwidth of the
unit. All this is on the web site, so please stay tuned.

For Mr. Winterflood, Yes the exciter will oscillate (without) the (so
called) output coil, but it will not be wideband. Without the coil you will
see on an SA a fundamental followed by normal harmonics with about a
10-20Mhz width. With the output coil (connected to a load or not) the
bandwidth will increase to in many cases >500Mhz with frequencies every
~5Mhz. All of the generated frequencies are well above a typical noise floor
and do not decrease as would be thought. There are specific and multiple
primary (fundamentals) which then spawn a set of harmonics. If you do not
have this bandwidth 'You do not have a SEC Exciter', whether it acts
conventionally or not, its not a SEC Exciter.

The negative resistance I talk about is a function of the transistor and is
taking place from the collector to the base junction as I have stated and it
is caused by a voltage spike and Mr Winterflood as talked, but this spike is
not what it was stated to be.

Consider a number of tuned circuits; 1) the base coil and capacitor
(series), 2) the base coil and capacitor with the collector to base
capacity, shunted by the base/emitter capacity (series/parallel), 3) the
self resonant collector coil (parallel), 4) the so called load coil or
output coil and its capacity to the lattice. All of these parts are critical
in an exciter and are what makes it work. I find it interesting no one is
the slightest bit excited by such a simple oscillator that is so wideband.
This little device will cause havoc in its operational are.

The neon has nothing to do with the operation, the AV Plug has nothing to
due with operation. The neon is indeed used as a heat producer and I will
not go there. The AV plug is a method, a way to convert the WB into useful
energy as it should be obvious tuned circuits are out of the question. An
exciter loves non-linear loads and this is where one could see something
interesting.

I am working and hope to get site back this week.

I will be happy to communicate by private mail with anyone and if you are so
inclined to build an exciter, that might be a good thing.

Keith Nagel wrote:
Hi John,

I did read enough of Ron's site to understand that the
circuit he was working with was something quite different
from what is shown at the site you point to. The main
feature of interest ( hence the thread title ) was the
way he was using parasitic capacities to charge a big
electrolytic capacitor. This from a cursory reading;
I could be missing things due to the length of the
original page and time constraints on this end.

I think we need to wait for Ron to repost his material,
perhaps he'll do a page with a single circuit that
shows the effect of most interest to him. I enjoyed
reading his longer page with many variants, but it
will make it harder for us to have a discussion due
to the confusion over what we are discussing (grin).

My true negative resistance circuit was done entirely
with passive components. The key component was a spark
gap; about as nonlinear a component as you can get.
Again, there was nothing special about the energy balance
in that circuit; what was special was the self switching
nature of the spark gap when run in the correct fashion.
The circuit was continuous wave RF on the output,
with DC for the input. Not a tesla coil circuit.
As you say, with op-amps you can make true negative resistance
circuits, or for that matter negative inductance or
negative capacitance... another subject well worth
studying.

K.

-----Original Message-----
From: newcandle-bounces at ipdiscover.com
[mailto:newcandle-bounces at ipdiscover.com]On Behalf Of John Winterflood
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 7:08 PM
To: New energy for the new world.
Subject: Re: [NewCandle] Parasitic Cap Charging

Keith Nagel wrote:

Hi John + Ron,

While I can't now go to Ron's website to see the circuit again, I gather
from the email that he's got some kind of colpitts oscillator going on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colpitts_oscillator

Ron's website went down also before I could study his circuit but I
based my comments on the circuit on this guy's blog page
http://creatorguy.com/ click near the bottom of the page where it says
"MicroSECSchematic".  If you redraw it in a more standard arrangement
you will see that it is not a Colpitts, and indeed the only connection
between the output (collector) and input (base) would seem to be the
collector to base (or miller) capacitance.  This is of the wrong
polarity of course to help oscillation.  But now I am starting to think
that it might be the load inductor (L2 in the above schematic) and neon
on the output that is the real key to the circuits operation.  Maybe the
periodic negative-resistance breakdown of the neon is sucking current
through L2, reverse biasing the collector-base junction (ie forward
biasing the C-B diode junction) and sucking pulses of current from the
base tank circuit through this path!

This oscillator indeed has a negative resistance characteristic, and
fills the claim of a circuit with such using only one BJT.

My claim was that I couldn't think of a way to make a (OK!)
*differential* negative resistance which works down to DC using a single
BJT.  With two
BJTs of course it is easy.

Not too quibble over nomenclature, but what you (John)
are describing is a negative differential
resistance. A true negative resistance is one in which energy is
inserted into the circuit through the "resistance".

Yes I appreciate the difference.  One can also make a very good (near
perfect) negative resistance with an op-amp wired appropriately (see
diagram at http://www.answers.com/topic/negative-resistance-circuits).
This one gives a negative resistance to ground.  A both-ends-floating
negative resistor can be made by adding another op-amp.

 An old friend of
mine humorously referred to this as "joule cooling". I have built
such a circuit, but before you guys get too excited, the energy source
doing the "inserting" was a DC pulse. From the point of view of
the circuit, there would be a positive current and a negative voltage,
a true negative resistance. When this circuit element was put into
a passive LC network, the whole circuit would ring up at the resonant
frequency at the expense of the DC driving pulse.

I believe you can do the same with a neon lamp - provided you bias it
with DC to its negative resistance region.  An AC tank circuit wired
around it will ring-up just as you describe.

It's tempting
to write this up for the website, but I did this work years ago
so I don't have pics of the device, just the scope shots.

Not to put words in Ron's mouth, but I think when he asks you to
forget everything you know and build the circuit what's he's
doing in effect is to say, "look, I could spend a month
arguing with you about this thing, but if
you build a copy and play with it most of the discussion can
be avoided and we'll be on the same page pretty quickly". It
is in fact the quality that makes Ron welcome here; his
constant exhorting of people to actually build up some hardware
and play with it. I would take his advice;

Yes I am getting there.  I was really hoping that the dozen or so clever
hobbyists and one or two PhDs that Ron has already had looking at the
problem would have come up with some resolutions by now.  By rights I
should not be able to add much to such an effort except possibly to be
able to see things from a physics point of view instead of just from an
electronics viewpoint.  What also puts me off a little is the special
inductor and the fact that one might get everything apparently working
(ie oscillating) only to find that it is not working in "SEC mode".  But
if there is something I can identify as unquestionably anomalous, I do
intend to get my hands dirty with a protoboard or something.

J.

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