[NewCandle] Where's the Ox?

[Keith Nagel]

Hey Jones, et al.

I watched the video, and I'm not sure why you think there is
much less gas at the anode? If there is measurably less gas,
and this is a chloride solution with carbon rods, perhaps
Cl is being generated at the anode which would tend to dissolve
into solution rather than being liberated. Also, I have observed
adsorption of O2 at the anode with carbon, although this process
seems to limit after a short time. If this happens you will
notice a much lower overpotential at the anode. This was very
pronounced with active carbon composition anodes, due to
the massive surface areas.

So k4zep is doing videos now? That's cool.  

K.





-----Original Message-----
From: newcandle-bounces at ipdiscover.com
[mailto:newcandle-bounces at ipdiscover.com]On Behalf Of Jones Beene
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 6:49 AM
To: New energy for the new world.
Subject: Re: [NewCandle] Where's the Ox?


Robin and all,

Yes, some oxygen is coming off the anode, but I think
we can agree that it is too little in comparison- PLUS
we do not know for sure that 100% of the cathode gas
is hydrogen. 

Now please excuse the parts of the following rant
which you find offensive ... ;-)

Salt water electrolysis is so basic and simple, even
to the point of being naive, that it is rather amazing
that there is not more precise detail on such an
experiment available in the literature and at the HIGH
SCHOOL level, much less university level. This is a
prime area for the student "Science Fair".

That is one of the reasons to mention it (and to see
if I have missed anything relevant on the internet,
which the perceptive folks here may know about). The
other is the John Kanzius RF irradiation experiment. I
keep hearing rumors that they have gone further than
what is being reported - and at Penn State, a major
university. There could be an announcement this Fall.

Recently Dr. Stiffler has made an advance which seems
to be related, in that there is RF in his circuit.
That is probably the direction in which Ben, in the
"world's smallest lab" will proceed with the video
sequence on YouTube.

However, going further into the unknown - if - there
is such a thing as overunity electrolysis (or even
robust near-unity), then it might well depend on the
preferential formation of peroxide (which is graphite
in this video). Metal electrodes do NOT generally show
this kind of asymmetry in amount of the two gases
AFAIK, and peroxide can explain that. There are old
patents which mention this possibility with graphite,
so it is not new.

HOOH, being a liquid will stay in solution for a
while, but eventually it will decompose at a certain
enrichment - unless removed. This decomposition of
peroxide to H2 and O2 could happen on the cathode; so
that the gas coming off the cathode in the video could
conceivably have O2 entrained, in addition to the
small amount on the anode. That is why the point was
mentioned that we do not know for sure that 100% of
the cathode gas is hydrogen, even though the tinier
bubbles may indicate it is.  

You are probably aware of the quasi-scientific niche
of water-splitting going under the popular title:
"HHO"... where there is a presumption, going back to
Brown's gas that there is a metastable variety of
output from some kinds of electrolysis - which gas is
energetic but yet NOT stoichiometric H2 nor O2 in a
mix. I wish they had stuck with the old name -
"Brown's Gas." The jury is still out on the factuality
of that situation.

BTW - for several years I have been assisting in a
group project to try various strategies to remove and
enrich HOOH before it can decompose - with limited
success. I think there are some ways that this can be
done, but like so many things which are attempted on
the amateur level, it is a hit-or-miss proposition. 

Unless the price of crude oil falls rather
dramatically soon, there should be more and more
funding available for this kind of thing, and more
importantly - energetic young minds who will enter
this field and eventually get results.

In a perverse way - I'm actually kinda hoping that oil
prices stay high for another year or two, to
facilitate the urgency of finding commercial
alternatives == but there are plenty of indications of
a big crash in the price of oil will coincide with the
US Presidential election. 

And there are those cynics who may try to read
something into that coincidence, if it happens that
way- especially if the party most associated with the
Petro-Mafia does not win. 

With $100 billion in the Bank, some cynics think that
a company like Exxon cannot afford to permit the White
House to change hands. Does that kind of money "talk"?

End of rant. I will now relinquish the soap-box to
whomever can defend rampant price-gouging.

Jones


--- Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa at bigpond.net.au>
wrote:

> In reply to  Jones Beene's message of Sun, 10 Aug
> 2008 17:25:48 -0700 (PDT):
> Hi,
> [snip]
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGfaSn9kQkM
> 
> The material of the anode may be partially going
> into solution. There is clearly
> some Oxygen coming off the anode, and you would
> expect at most half as much gas
> as Hydrogen anyway.
> Regards,
> 
> Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa at bigpond.net.au>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NewCandle mailing list
> NewCandle at ipdiscover.com
>
http://ipdiscover.com/mailman/listinfo/newcandle_ipdiscover.com
> 


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